Curse

Crocodylusu Pontifex · May 07, 2005, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Maybe I'm doing something wrong or missing something, but...

If you create a PvP character (so I won't have to play the abysmal PvE mode), why are most of the skills locked? Do I have to unlock those with a roleplaying character? Then what the hell is the point of a PvP only character, if you still need to play as a RPG character to unlock the skills?

I certainly hope I'm doing something wrong, because I really don't want to play as a crappy roleplaying character...

ShaneFalco · May 07, 2005, 01:03 PM // 13:03

You have to unlock them with an RP character.

Crocodylusu Pontifex · May 07, 2005, 01:07 PM // 13:07

But RP characters PvP too... What's the point of beginning with a PvP character then, if the RP characters can do everything? I hope NCsoft fixes this.

Pevil Lihatuh · May 07, 2005, 01:28 PM // 13:28

lol well put it this way. it means you can make one rp character to play the story through and level up and unlock skills... and 3 that are 'ready made' at level 20 to go whoop some butt. It's that or have 4 rp characters that all have to be made up to level 20 and find their own stuff. I guess if they unlocked everything for PvP chars they would just be too... boring. Everyone would have access to everything and no one would get teh benefits of having explored the world. *shrugs*

Crocodylusu Pontifex · May 07, 2005, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pevil Lihatuh

lol well put it this way. it means you can make one rp character to play the story through and level up and unlock skills... and 3 that are 'ready made' at level 20 to go whoop some butt. It's that or have 4 rp characters that all have to be made up to level 20 and find their own stuff. I guess if they unlocked everything for PvP chars they would just be too... boring. Everyone would have access to everything and no one would get teh benefits of having explored the world. *shrugs*

Perhaps, but the back of the box says "You'll prove your worth with every battle as skill, not hours played, decides your faith.".

If I have to put many hours exploring the huge, boring gameworld (the opening region with the lush green landscapes was great, then turned crap with boring brown colours and lame leveldesign everywhere) to get the good skills, it means you still have to put many hours of work into becoming better then others. Which makes Guild Wars as bad as all other MMORPG's, sadly. And that's bad, since it's only since yesterday that I spent money on this, and am already bored, without being able to trade the game in. Damn.

I may be expecting too much from a MMORPG after playing Counter-Strike for years (in which you can be better then people who have put in more hours then you), but this game is rather dissapointing then...

Davey · May 07, 2005, 03:43 PM // 15:43

The difference between Guild Wars and other ORPG's is not that you don't need to spend time on it, but that time only has a limited effect. This doesn't mean that you can just own everyone at the start of the game cause that would take the competition spirit away from the game.

Kriegar · May 07, 2005, 03:44 PM // 15:44

If you truly are better than someone, you can beat them with premade PvP builds vs. their fully unlocked. When it gets close in terms of skill however, they will have the advantage of extra skills... just like save rounds in CS when you have a pistol vs. rifles :\

Manderlock · May 07, 2005, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crocodylusu Pontifex

Perhaps, but the back of the box says "You'll prove your worth with every battle as skill, not hours played, decides your faith.".

If I have to put many hours exploring the huge, boring gameworld (the opening region with the lush green landscapes was great, then turned crap with boring brown colours and lame leveldesign everywhere) to get the good skills, it means you still have to put many hours of work into becoming better then others. Which makes Guild Wars as bad as all other MMORPG's, sadly. And that's bad, since it's only since yesterday that I spent money on this, and am already bored, without being able to trade the game in. Damn.

I may be expecting too much from a MMORPG after playing Counter-Strike for years (in which you can be better then people who have put in more hours then you), but this game is rather dissapointing then...

Please, do want this game be over in 20 hours?

Of coures you have to work for things, it adds to replay value. What they are talking about is the lvl grind. Once 20 always 20 never gonna change. that means that you dont have to worry about your char being behind other chars in the game.

I for one like to have games that last while. I would waste money on a game where its all handed to you on a silver plater.

Sir_Munroe · May 07, 2005, 07:20 PM // 19:20

You can use PRE-MADE Builds and they have Skills. Just use one of them if you're not happy.

Pevil Lihatuh · May 07, 2005, 07:28 PM // 19:28

you know if you get past ascalon post-sear it's not all brown and boring anymore

I guess if they made PvP characters all with skills unlocked, then it'd be like giving you the game with a ready made fully geared fully quested character and saying "there you go, we played it for you, go win one battle and you're done".

Don't forget on the other side there have been people complaining how pvpers don't have to work their way up from level 1.

Deagol · May 07, 2005, 07:53 PM // 19:53

I still think all skills and items should be unlocked for PvP characters, *and* there should be special arenas and tournaments reserved for RP players. That ought to make everybody happy.

Kelzar · May 07, 2005, 07:58 PM // 19:58

OMG, do play PlanatSide, UltimaOnline, or something if ur into PvP so much and not into doing the whole PvE thing, i Mean for a MMORPG which GW is! PvE is 90% of the game most of the time to start out w/ until you get to the "EndGame" I mean, who cant tell hes a frickin noob to the online gameing world ?

Kerus Tel Veren · May 07, 2005, 08:05 PM // 20:05

I agree with the original poster, and I'm not seeing any good arguments against his viewpoint. Their whole marketing schitck WAS 'skill not hours', and that simply isn't true. Yes you can use the premade builds. No, they aren't great. And no, you don't have a serious chance against a team of other players, all of whom have unlocked their pertinent skills.

Zek · May 07, 2005, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crocodylusu Pontifex

Maybe I'm doing something wrong or missing something, but...

If you create a PvP character (so I won't have to play the abysmal PvE mode), why are most of the skills locked? Do I have to unlock those with a roleplaying character? Then what the hell is the point of a PvP only character, if you still need to play as a RPG character to unlock the skills?

I certainly hope I'm doing something wrong, because I really don't want to play as a crappy roleplaying character...

I don't know where you got the impression that you can have the strongest character without ever playing the game, but that's your mistake not theirs. You can play PvP from the start if you're satisfied with pre-selected skills and plain equipment, but they aren't just going to hand-feed you the best skills. The point of a PvP character is to allow you greater flexibility without creating tons of alts. For example, if you play two roleplaying characters, you can then use those skills to make a PvP character with any combination of those four professions, even if you never played two of them as primaries.

Once you finish the first 4 missions you'll get out of the post-searing scenery. If you still hate PvE but want all the skills there are, then I'm afraid you chose the wrong game.

Crocodylusu Pontifex · May 08, 2005, 07:50 AM // 07:50

The problem I have is that you need to invest time, and lots of it to get a competitive character, while I'm used to games wherein all characters are on a level playing field, no matter how many hours you've put in.

The skills you get by default on PvP characters are poor, and you need to invest tons of time (I have a job and such, so don't really have time to play a game more then 2 hours a day) to get skills that are good.

To those saying it would defeat the whole point of playing the game if you unlock all the skills for a PvP character: That is not true. Look at any other online game that isn't an RPG. Look at RTS games like Command & Conquer. You can install the game for the first time in your life, immediately start a multiplayer game, and your army will be on the same level as the guy you're facing. If you get your butt kicked, it's because you don't have the skill to beat him, not because the enemy has invested more hours into getting all the powerful units, since they are available from the start.
Same with most FPS games. All characters are the same, and if you keep getting killed without scoring points yourself, it's because your aim sucks, and you don't know the maps you're playing. It's not because the enemy has invested more time in the game to unlock that all-powerful sniper rifle.
Racing games: You will finish last as a beginner, because you don't know the track and haven't developed a feel for the cars yet, not because the cars of the opponents are superior.

If everyone can start a PVP character in GW with all skills available, it won't be a matter of hours put in, but picking the right skills, and using them better then the other team. That's skill.

I'm not going as far as to say NCsoft has been falsely advertising their product, but the line "You'll prove your worth with every battle as skill, not hours played, decides your faith." would give you the idea that the playing field is level, when in fact it isn't.

Edit: Of course, you could join an arena with others of your level (like the arena that's open from level 7 to 10), but that's only interesting to RP'ers. Those arena's are open to RP'ers, so they can still do teambattles while exploring the story, but at the end, it's still the level 20 character fights that are the meat of the game.

Spartan2 · May 08, 2005, 08:00 AM // 08:00

The way I think Arenanet is coming from is to think about it in terms of full scale war. Who would be more prepared: a fully seasoned and trained legion or a newly formed militia with no experience? Yes, those minutemen can pick up and use a gun, but will they be a formidadle adversary? Probably not. Did that legion spend a lot of time preparing and training to become good? Yes, they did, but all it takes is one bullet, spear, or sword to kill even the mightiest of heroes.

Crocodylusu Pontifex · May 08, 2005, 08:14 AM // 08:14

So we're getting hypothetical eh?

If both armies you mention have the same equipment, the better trained one would win obviously. But the inexperienced army can't blame the enemy for having the better stuff, it's because they were inexperienced, so they lost.

I have to twist your point a bit and propose that these were armies in a videogame. If the player of the losing army loses, he just needs to practice more, not invest time in getting better units then the enemy. Both would cost time, but training your skill is infinitly more rewarding and fulfilling then investing hours into getting better equipment and skill. I personally enjoy a game more when I beat the enemy because I'm better skilled at the game, not because I have skills that ignore his armour, and instantly kill the guy with huge ammounts of damage while he can only summon fireballs that do 20 damage each time.

Freyas · May 08, 2005, 08:30 AM // 08:30

I beg to differ on the fact that premades can't stand up to unlocked characters- in most cases, they can easily stand up if played well. During the last few weeks before release, SoW played only premade characters, with and without having runes unlocked for the PvP all-calls versus the other alpha guilds. We did quite well, having very few losses, even when we used no runes or weapon upgrades(with a few exceptions, such as an icy hammer haft for the Abominable Snowman), versus other skilled players. At the top level of competition, if you're in the top 1% of players, and everyone you compete against is at the exact same skill level as you, the difference in gear matters, but for the vast majority of matches, the premade builds can compete just fine.